It's Friday, the Astros have a new manager. The Yankees and Phillies are facing off in an East Coast World Series. What's going on in Astroville? Well, not a lot. We probably won't announce any new coaches until after the series is done, so let's create our own little discussion. I thought we could trot out a new baseball question each Friday and just have some fun with it.
First up, the box score. It was created by sportswriters back at the early part of the century, but hasn't really changed since. I love looking at them, I love creating them for the newspaper and I love how much information they pack into such a small space. The shame of it is, couldn't there be more useful stuff in there?
The one change I'll throw out there is this: instead of showing the number of ground ball outs and fly ball outs for each pitcher, why not list number of ground balls, number of line drives and number of fly balls. Not just outs, but all hits. How useful would that be?
What would you like to see in a 'new' box score? What would you get rid of? Is there any good way to get fielding data in there? Talk amongst yourselves...
0 recs | 19 comments
Unlike the manager selection, the MLB doesn’t prohibit the Astros from hiring coaches during the World Series. So, it’s always possible that it could happen during the World Series period.
As for box scores, I am disappointed that many newspapaers (including the local Austin American Statesman) have reduced the amount of information in box scores over the last couple of years (in order to conserve space). But, then again, I suppose most of us who are most interested in the box scores usually look at them on-line, where you can find the most complete versions.
clack - October 30, 2009
I actually would prefer it the other way where they get rid of some stats, but not for the sake of putting more ads in a news paper. For newspapers I’d keep it simple and avoid cluttering, I haven’t looked at a box score in a newspaper in a long time so I can’t say specifically what I would get rid of and what I would keep. I’d keep the statistics to the line of the players involved.
The box score online though throw as much on their as you want, because you can dedicate an entire web page to the box score.
Timothy De Block - October 30, 2009
Here’s a discussion question…would you rather see OBP, instead of batting average on the player lines in the box score?
clack - October 30, 2009
Boxscores at BaseballReference.com have a LOT more information....
I particularly like the addition of OPS as well as BA. It even includes WPA.
I pulled out the July 30, 1969 game at Shea Stadium, Astros vs. Mets in order to show the B-Ref boxscore. As I’ve mentioned here before, the 1969 season was special to me, because it was the first time that I closely followed the Astros’ season as a kid. It was also the first time that the Astros were truly in contention (10 games over .500 in the first week of Sept.). I also remember this July 30 game—-I listened on the radio, and insisted on staying in the car to listen to the game when my mother went into the supermarket for shopping. This was an exciting game, because it was really rare for that low scoring Astros team to score 16 runs. And it was against the eventual World Series champs, the Mets, and their No. 2 pitcher, Jerry Koosman. The 69 Mets were the “Miracle Mets,” but the Astros were kryptonite to those supermen of the Mets in 1969.
clack - October 30, 2009
while I'm at it...
the game above was the first of a DH at Shea. The Astros also won the second game, 11-5, led by Larry Dierker’s HR and double off Nolan Ryan.
clack - October 30, 2009
That
is awesome
Xan - October 30, 2009
Batting average
is like how many yards a running back get’s running the football, or catching the football. OBP would be like the combination of the two plus any returning yards they get. You don’t see total yards in the box score for football. What I like about the NFL boxscore is I get in and get out without a whole lot of clutter.
While I’d like to see OBP the problem is that it includes walks, and walks are boring. People aren’t checking the box score for how many walks a guy had, they’re looking for those exciting hits. A walk is the same as a single, but it’s more exciting to the fan to see a hit than a walk.
Timothy De Block - October 30, 2009
I check the box score for walks. Just sayin.
AstroAndy - October 30, 2009
I do too, but the casual fan won’t.
I’m taking a newspaper pov from this, and what’s going to get me readers, and what’s going to have the readers keep coming back to that section.
Timothy De Block - October 30, 2009
First, I’d like to see box scores use plate appearances instead of/in addition to AB. This would allow you to see how many times the opposing pitchers went through the lineup without having to go to the BB column and add it in.
I’d also like to see bunts/attempted bunts and infield hit numbers. Jeff Keppinger going 2-for-4 with hard-hit grounders up the middle is different from Kepp laying down a couple of bunts, but they are represented the same on the box scores.
I also think it could be informative to see contact vs. swing-and-miss numbers. One game would be a small sample size, but you could get a feel for whether the other team was seeing a particular pitcher well.
On the minor league team websites, in addition to the box score, they have a “Game Log” or a “Recap” that lays things out in narrative form. So instead of knowing just that a batter grounded out once in the game, you find out that he grounded out to the third baseman who made the throw to first base to make the final out of the third inning. This is way too much for a newspaper to print, but it’d be easy to post on a webpage (say, astros.com) instead of having to click around Gameday to get this info. When I check up on our minor leaguers, I usually look at the recaps to get a better feel for how well a player is hitting the ball or how efficient a pitcher is.
I don’t know how to improve fielder data in box scores, but if the Astros did the Game Log thing (like their minor league teams do), then they could indicate which plays Milo gave a blue star on. I don’t know if the blue star thing is a general scorekeeping convention, but I like to use it when I score a game.
AstroAndy - October 30, 2009
I think the Blue Star thing came up because someone found out they could attach a sponsorship to it.
GatorTD - October 30, 2009
Milo
I thought Milo had been doing the blue stars for a while, and then later somebody attached the sponsorship. Could be wrong though.
It’s definitely a Milo-only thing though (or perhaps at this point an Astros-only thing).
Xan - October 30, 2009
I believe you are correct
not sure if other teams picked up on it or have an equivalent but Milo started the blue star several years before it became part of the Astros tradition (with sponsor)
Joe in Birmingham - October 31, 2009
In Milo's own words
http://books.google.com/books?id=9aCefiHC3hUC&pg=RA1-PA148&lpg=RA1-PA148&dq=Milo+Hamilton+Blue+star+delivery+scorecard&source=bl&ots=-VuwS1fMKa&sig=lkOdDLrqX6ejBYrUGpekHj6xmNA&hl=en&ei=jPTsStiRAdWztgeIivE6&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CA8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=&f=false
Joe in Birmingham - October 31, 2009
Like the idea of a star-related note on good plays. I, too, will star plays that are noteworthy when I’m scoring.
Another thought I had about box scores: should we get rid of RBIs? I like the web boxes a lot, but I also want something I can glance at easily and see what happened. I’m wondering, though, if RBIs have become somewhat irrelevant. Maybe that’s just the stat-geek in me talking…
David Coleman - October 30, 2009
Oh, you’re really going to make Joe Morgan mad. :)
clack - October 30, 2009
RBI is the glamour stat only 2nd to HR.
Have to have glamour stats even if they are less than ideal.
Timothy De Block - October 30, 2009
Chicks don’t dig Runs Created???
David Coleman - October 30, 2009
boy do i wish.
Timothy De Block - October 30, 2009
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