David J. Phillip - AP
3 months ago: Newly hired Houston Astros general manager Jeff Luhnow answers a question during a news conference Thursday, Dec. 8, 2011, in Houston. Luhnow was with the St. Louis Cardinals before joining the Astros. (AP Photo/David J. Phillip)
With that in mind I decided to take a look at the Cardinals and Astros drafts from 2008-2011, which is the time frame in which Ed Wade became GM, and the draft started to become relevant again for the Astros. Since very few of these players drafted during this time period have made it to the majors, and the ones that have made it don't have a large enough sample size to determine what type of player they will be, I focused on the types of players drafted along with minor league career stats. This includes comparing college players and high school players, position players and pitchers, and how many of each category were signed by both teams, in addition to looking at minor league performance for rounds 1-10 from 2008-2010.
The first chart below shows the Astros and Cardinals Draft Distribution for 2008-2011, and the second chart shows the amount of money each team spent on the draft for the same time frame per Baseball America:
• The Cardinals had a much higher success rate at signing their draft picks than the Astros did. In 2008 the Cardinals signed 82.35% versus the Astros 61.54%, 86% versus 72.92% in 2009, 84.62% versus 67.31% in 2010, and both teams signed 70% of their draft picks in 2011. The Cardinals signed more players than the Astros did while spending less on the draft as a whole each year except for 2009. Over the four year period the Cardinals spent a total of $22,176,700 on the draft while the Astros spent $23,578,630.
• The Cardinals drafted a greater number of college players than the Astros did, while the Astros drafted a higher number of high school players. Both teams drafted close to the same amount of pitchers and position players each year.
• The Astros continued to draft a higher number of high school players than the Cardinals in every draft except for 2011, while the Cardinals draft heavily favored College players in the first ten rounds. The Cardinals signed every player drafted in the first ten rounds for all four drafts, while the Astros were only unable to sign two (Chase Davidson 2008, Adam Plutko 2010) in the first ten rounds.
As far as actual minor league performance is concerned the Cardinals draftees in the first ten rounds have outperformed the Astros.
Below is a look at the average batting averages, on-base percentages, and slugging percentages for the drafts 2008-2010. 2011 is not included since the players drafted did not have a full season in the minors.
Cardinals 2008: AVG - .271, OBP - .364, SLG - .423
Astros 2008: AVG - .268, OBP - .336, SLG - .396
Cardinals 2009: AVG - .254, OBP - .330, SLG - .400
Astros 2009: AVG - .262, OBP - .343, SLG - .374
Cardinals 2010: AVG - .273, OBP - .349, SLG - .402
Astros 2010: AVG - .252, OBP - .321, SLG - .370
The Astros 2009 top ten picks outperformed the Cardinals in both batting average and on-base percentage, but not slugging. Other than that draft class, the Cardinals have outperformed the Astros in every category.
The pitchers were a little harder to compare the same way due to the fact that some of the pitchers have selected in these rounds have a very small sample size, especially in the 2009 and 2010 drafts, but below is the comparison between the Cardinals and Astros pitchers.
Cardinals 2008: ERA - 3.92, H/9 - 8.8, BB/9 - 3.5, K/9 - 7
Astros 2008: ERA - 4.98, H/9 - 9.8, BB/9 - 3.7, K/9 - 7
Cardinals 2009: ERA - 4.76, H/9 - 8.5, BB/9 - 5.1, K/9 - 9.3
Astros 2009: ERA - 5.99, H/9 - 10.7, BB/9 - 4.2, K/9 - 6.9
Cardinals 2010: ERA - 3.46, H/9 - 8.2, BB/9 - 3.5, K/9 - 8.3
Astros 2010: ERA - 3.99, H/9 - 8.9, BB/9 - 2.8, K/9 - 7.9
The Cardinals pitchers drafted from 2008-2010 outperformed the Astros in every category except for walks.
To wrap things up, Astros fans could see a difference in approach in terms of the draft going forward depending on big of a role Luhnow played in the Cardinals drafting strategies. Since Ed Wade and Bobby Heck has been at the helm we have heard a lot about projection and potential, but so far that hasn't translated into actual stats. It would be a nice change of pace to see performance matching expectations.
1 recs | 99 comments
A big thanks goes to CRPerry13 for helping me get my tables under control.
conroestro - January 26, 2012
Oh, that gets a rec. :D
CRPerry13 - January 26, 2012
great read! good work
I think Wade had to go. But I wonder if Heck still being around with the draft only a few months away means they chalked up the bad drafts to ownership/GM hand cuffing Hecks decision making?
lawson3 - January 26, 2012 via mobile
Why do you say they were bad drafts?
Timothy De Block - January 26, 2012
why do i say the drafts were bad?
We have 1 top 100 prospect that was drafted by us. We have one of the thinnest farm systems and it would be the thinnest if it wasn’t for trades. I don’t think the drafts went well. Granted some of the guys still have time to improve and I think some will. But besides Springer do you see any superstars in the making?
lawson3 - January 26, 2012 via mobile
Jason Castro, Jordan Lyles, J.D. Martinez and J.B. Shuck were all drafted in either 2008 or 2009 and made their debut last season.
Dallas Keuchel, Jake Goebbert, Andrew Simunic and Brandon Wikoff were all also drafted in either 2008 or 2009 and reached AAA last season.
I’m not going to laud the Astros for their excellent drafts but I wouldn’t call them bad either. Prospects with “superstar” potential are rare and if that’s the logic for rating a farm system then all the teams outside of the Washington Nationals have had bad drafts; having Strasburg and Harper at the first pick made things easy.
Timothy De Block - January 26, 2012
i guess we have different opinions on "superstar" potential
I think cosart springer and singleton have that potential. But we only drafted one of those guys. Harper has the ceiling to be the best hitter in the game, and strasburg the best pitcher. I don’t know how you took that from what I said.
lawson3 - January 26, 2012 via mobile
Do you not consider the best hitter and best pitcher a superstar?
Timothy De Block - January 26, 2012
yeah i was saying your standards were too high not too low
lawson3 - January 26, 2012 via mobile
so are you trying to argue that the astros have had good drafts?
lawson3 - January 26, 2012 via mobile
I wouldnt say good, but I have liked the drafts. I have said this over and over, you cannot evaluate a draft based off immediate impact to a farm system. It takes several years before you can even begin to evaluate it because of the rate at which high school athletes develop is very different, and the Astros drafts have leaned heavily on HS athletes.
We can just now begin to really evaluate 2008, and so far the combination of Lyles, Castro, and Shuck have already made the majors with guys like Ross Seaton slowly developing, Chris Hicks has struggled with injury but the end of this season, opened some eyes as a potential late inning releiver with hard stuff, and Rene Garcia is still young and moving through the system with solid reports. So far, the draft is looking pretty solid.
Whenever you read about the Astros system, the majority add a very nice caveat, and that is that there a lot of young athletes with impressive tools that are currently C+ prospects that could have their stock skyrocket. DDJ, Folty, Houser, Armstrong, Mier, Meyer, Bushue, Nash…should I go on?
Subber10 - January 26, 2012
Considering the chains of ownership
I think the drafts were pretty good.
CRPerry13 - January 26, 2012
2011 is interesting, when put into this context
It’s odd how in 2011 both teams had essentially the same draft in terms of types of players chosen. It looks like the Cardinals’ distribution stayed the same while the Astros drastically scaled back the number of High Schoolers chosen and increased the college students. I wonder if the class of High School players wasn’t as strong as past years, or if the Astros had a change in strategy? (We’ll probably never know for sure).
I also find it fascinating that between 2009 and 2010 there was a +$3M change in bonus money, then a -$2M change going into 2011. I can’t think that the team sale had much to do with that, as that’s not enough money to make a drop in the bucket, even for a losing team with an outgoing owner. Especially odd when considering that the Astros’ highest draft pick during that time (Springer) should have cost a bunch more money than guys picked lower in previous years, but he only signed for $500K more than Castro and $375K more than DDJ.
Draft tactics are a subject I think I’d like to learn more about.
Great post, dude.
CRPerry13 - January 26, 2012
I think the difference in spending between 2009 and 2010 has a lot to do with the supplemental picks available to the Astros in those years. In 2010, the Astros first three picks were No. 8, No. 19, and No. 33. The Astros didn’t have a supplemental pick in 2009 until the end of the 3d round (No. 111). The first three picks in 2009 were No. 21, No. 69, and No. 100. The Astros had no supplemental picks in 2011. I think the existence of 3 first round picks in 2010 outweighed the monetary effect of the higher drafting position in 2011.
clack - January 26, 2012
…and as I wrote the comment above, I was thinking that the results of the 2010 draft should be pretty important. If you have three first round picks, you should get some good out of that draft. We don’t know about DDS yet, because he is so young, but we have hopes. Folty as the second pick has shown some promise but is still young and adjusting to pro ball. Kvasnicka, the third pick, is the college hitter, and he hasn’t accomplished a lot yet. I probably hold out more hope on his future than most people around here.
clack - January 26, 2012
I’m higher on Kvasnicka as well. I kind of wished the Astros didn’t move him to third base and left him at catcher. Reports were that he had a shot at sticking behind the dish when he was drafted which caused his stock to rise leading into the draft. His bat would definitely play up at the position where it may be more or less average at third.
conroestro - January 26, 2012 via mobile
agree.
clack - January 26, 2012
I wonder if moving him off of the position was more of an organizational need move, or if Heck and co were not convinced he had what it takes to stay behind the plate.
conroestro - January 26, 2012 via mobile
I would hope it was that they felt he did not have what it takes. I really do not like moving players off premium positions for the need to fill another position. I specifically do not like it when they are moved from a position they can play at an average level in the field and their bat is a plus, to another position where their bat has less value.
If you consider a catcher with an above average bat at his position to be more valuable than a 3rd basemen with an above average bat at his position, then if you found said catcher “blocked” you could theoretically trade him for a third basemen with an >above average bat instead of converting him and having a third basemen with a below average bat for his position.
Even if the positions are of equal value gaining an above average bat at third base via trading the catcher seems better than gaining a below average bat at third base by changing positions.
Crzycjunx76 - January 26, 2012
This just occured to me
I bet the Cardinals’ draft picks outplaying the Astros draft picks had to do with the Cardinals having so many more college players (thus, more experienced). I’m not going to worry about the performance differences, considering how many of the Astros’ draftees were so comparatively young.
CRPerry13 - January 26, 2012
Yeah, that is probably the case. DDJ, Jio Mier, Folty, Seaton, Bushue, and Nash to name a few are all still pretty young and hopefully will improve.
conroestro - January 26, 2012 via mobile
I thought that too
ntn - January 26, 2012 via mobile
Good work. But my initial reaction to the performance comparisons on position players is that I can’t put a lot of weight in the results without knowing the positions which were drafted. If the Cardinals had similarity to the Astros in the proportion of catchers, shortstops, CFers, etc. drafted in the early rounds, this wouldn’t be an issue. But I don’t know if that is true. But I do know that the Astros expended No. 1 picks on a catcher and shortstop, both positions with higher positional value and lower expected offensive results.
CRPerry’s point that the performance results are affected by the age differences for college vs. high school draftees is a good one. Also, the teams’ aggressiveness in promoting players can be a factor too.
clack - January 26, 2012
In 2008 the Cardinals drafted Brett Wallace 1B, Shane Peterson LF/RF, Niko Vasquez SS, Jermaine Curtis 3B, Aaron Luna LF/RF, and Alec Castellanos 2B. The highest level for three of those guys is AA (2 college drafts and 1 HS) two AAA (both college), and one majors which is Brett Wallace.
The 2009Astros drafts include Robert Stock C, Ryan Jackson SS, Virgil Hill LF/RF, Kyle Conley LF/RF, and Jason Stidham SS. 2 of these guys are in A Ball (JC and College), two in High A (both college), and one in AA (also college).
In 2010 they drafted Zach Cox 3B, Sam Tuivailala SS, Cody Stanley C, Nick Longmire CF, Greg Garcia SS, and Reggie Williams CF. Two were still in rookie ball (JC and HS), two in A ball (both college), one high A (college), and one in AA (college).
I agree though, there were probably too many factors present to get anything useful from the stats comparison. Probably should have left it out.
conroestro - January 26, 2012 via mobile
Typo
The 2009 info is the Cardinals draft not the Astros.
conroestro - January 26, 2012 via mobile
I wouldn’t say leave it out. The information is provocative and worth looking at, even if the question marks keep us from putting a lot of weight on it.
clack - January 26, 2012
Gotcha. I knew while I was looking at that I was comparing guys at different ages at different levels with different sample sizes across the board, but I wanted to see how those draft classes performed as a whole.
It will be several years I suppose before we know for sure which drafts were successes. The Sickels comparison the other day that had the Cardinals as the number 5 system in the majors was one of the reasons I wanted to look into the subject.
conroestro - January 26, 2012 via mobile
Percentage of signings
Yes. It’s also probably why the Cardinals are more likely to sign their draft picks because college players are more likely to sign.
jmike - January 26, 2012
Question
I wonder if the new CBA’s hard slotting will affect the amount of signees both teams have in rounds 1-10. The Cardinals signed every draft pick in those rounds from 08-11, and the Astros only failed to sign two.
conroestro - January 26, 2012 via mobile
The new CBA should put some pressure on organizations to sign all of their picks, since they lose the slot money for a position if the pick is unsigned. The new CBA could affect the types of players who are drafted (maybe a preference for college, perhaps some low cost guys move up, etc.).
clack - January 26, 2012
Here's a post on deshields.
http://t.co/YVSpmgnb might not work I’m on a phone. It’s at fangraphs if it doesn’t work.
MadMartygan - January 26, 2012 via mobile
That is a good scouting report on DDJ.
Takeaways:
Solid athleticism, but could improve mobility.
Defense is a work in progress and footwork is choppy:
Flat swing plain is a hindrance to his power potential.
Often swings with his shoulders which offsets his strong wrists and bat speed.
Gets out on his front foot often, and spins off of pitches.
All in all that’s pretty much what you would expect from someone his age. Hopefully he can fine tune his swing mechanics and become more consistent.
conroestro - January 26, 2012 via mobile
Yeah I thought it was pretty fair assessment. There’s some stuff that we can look forward to. I’m a little surprised at how raw he is, being that he’s a big leaguer’s son.
MadMartygan - January 26, 2012
Yeah, it is a bit surprising
But maybe not as much when you consider his age and background. It seems he was more focused on football in high school.
OremLK - January 26, 2012
From what I’ve heard, he is really has a great work ethic. You can really see the focus on footwork in the fielding drill.
Subber10 - January 26, 2012
The shoulder swinging is really prevalent in the game footage, its pretty obvious. He really needs to use those hips a lot better, the BP was a bit better. No doubt he has work to do on his mechanics. But man, that bat speed is great and he is stacked physically.
Subber10 - January 26, 2012
After seeing the video in that post, I have upgraded my perception of his future power tool
From 50 to about 55, maybe even 60 (still considering). His build is more powerful than I remember seeing in draft videos and his bat speed is exceptional. He could definitely break out in a big way one of these years. We’ll just have to see if he can make the needed adjustments.
OremLK - January 26, 2012
The power potential is my favorite thing about him. There’s an explosion to him. When you say 60, is that for a 2nd baseman or overall?
MadMartygan - January 26, 2012
Tools are always listed independent of position
60 power is 60 power whether you’re a 2nd baseman, DH, or catcher.
OremLK - January 26, 2012
I’ve for some reason never asked that question. Thanks.
MadMartygan - January 26, 2012
Craig Biggio, only 5 tool catcher?
MadMartygan - January 26, 2012
5 tool with above average plate discipline up the middle
Good way to get to the HoF!
OremLK - January 26, 2012
Crossing fingers.
conroestro - January 26, 2012 via mobile
What kind of power #’s does that rating translate to, potential-wise? Could he be a 30/30 guy or does he top out at 20HR/yr?
Snake Diggity - January 26, 2012
60 is above-average or “plus”. I think of 60 power as being 20-30 HR.
OremLK - January 26, 2012
Hopefully he realizes his potential. At least the organization has the ability to take it extremely slow with him and move him along at his on pace. Hopefully Altuve is able to hold down the position for a little while.
conroestro - January 26, 2012 via mobile
Off topic
Does anyone know anything about Adrian Cardenas? Would he be worth picking up on a minor league deal to have middle infield depth at AAA. His minor league numbers look solid and he’s pretty young. I assume his defense must not be too hot. He kind of seems like Matt Downs.
ntn - January 26, 2012 via mobile
I saw that the A’s released him, bit I don’t know much about him. Just looking at his stats page it seems like he would be a better option than Brian Bixler offensively, but I don’t know anything about his defense.
I wonder if an AL team would claim him first.
conroestro - January 26, 2012 via mobile
He has a good pedigree. A first round pick in 2006, and a Top 100 prospect in 2008 and 2009. He is still young (24), though his minor league service time is accumulating. Obviously the key question is his defense. He hasn’t played much shortstop since 2008; so I’m guessing that his shortstop ability is limited. All I’ve got to look at is TZ through 2009. Here is his TZ by position, with number of minor league seasons in parentheses:
2B (5) -9 runs
SS (4) -4 runs
3b (3) -2 runs
His offense looks like MarGo’s. But the defense might be sketchy. I think he is worth a AAA signing if he becomes a minor league free agent. I don’t think he would be a shortstop option, which might make Bixler more useful.
clack - January 26, 2012
clack
Keep up with articles like this and you might find yourself getting drafted…by the FO! Good write up, impressive amount of data, new hope for draft!
Its Gonna Happen - January 26, 2012 via mobile
Conroestro quietly sheds a tear.
MadMartygan - January 26, 2012
I know man. It’s Gonna Happen forgot about me here. I CAN’T BELIEVE IT HAPPENED.
conroestro - January 26, 2012 via mobile
clack jr...
I had a nyquil induced hangover…read the comments and saw clack last I guess…my bad. Phuck nyquil!
Its Gonna Happen - January 26, 2012 via mobile
ha! I was confused when I started reading this.
clack - January 26, 2012
Damn the Nyquil.
Thanks for the compliment IGH.
conroestro - January 26, 2012 via mobile
But was it??? We’ll never know!
CRPerry13 - January 26, 2012
True. He was probably giving Clack a well deserved compliment for the comments.
conroestro - January 26, 2012 via mobile
No, there was definately nyquil still in the system
It was a very well done, well thought out article. My bad on the misdirected compliment, but it was a compliment none the less.
Its Gonna Happen - January 26, 2012 via mobile
If I were confused with Clack I would take it as a great honor. Of course I never write anything that magical.
Timothy De Block - January 26, 2012
Yeah, that would definitely be viewed as a huge honor. I am definitely not Clack-worthy. Clack’s the man. I love all of his stuff, and reading it changed the way I enjoy baseball and the Astros.
Couple of cocktails on the plane ride home so sorry about the mushy stuff.
conroestro - January 26, 2012 via mobile
I’ve been battling a cold/flu. I haven’t resorted to using Nyquil yet, but I bought some just in case.
clack - January 26, 2012
He's lying. It wasn't the nyquil; It was THIS!:
Sorry, I just had to do it!
BustaPozee - January 26, 2012
It'd be weird
But I’d do her…
Its Gonna Happen - January 27, 2012 via mobile
Is that a neck or a fence slat?
CRPerry13 - January 27, 2012
I am mildy irritated right now
Lidge signed a 1 mil deal and Wheeler signed a minor league deal … I was really hoping we might get one of these guys and their price seems to have been more than reasonable. Perhaps Coffee will be ours on a deal similar to Lidge’s.
Crzycjunx76 - January 26, 2012
I wouldn’t have minded if the Astros would’ve signed Lidge for the veteran presence, but I wont lose any sleep over it.
conroestro - January 26, 2012 via mobile
I read where they were linked to Luis Ayala earlier. That would accomplish the same thing.
conroestro - January 26, 2012 via mobile
Saving money for Soler?
:)
OremLK - January 26, 2012
Well in that case it is cool
Crzycjunx76 - January 26, 2012
Every little bit helps!
MadMartygan - January 26, 2012
A Soler signing would make ne so happy.
conroestro - January 26, 2012 via mobile
You and me both, buddy.
MadMartygan - January 26, 2012
Another Team Prospect List
Seedlings to Stars posts their discussion of Astros prospects here. The discussions are somewhat interesting. It is surprising how different prospectors can come up with different relative views of players. For example, they like Oberholzer a lot better than Paul Clemens.
clack - January 27, 2012
Use the link in controestro’s comment below!!
clack - January 27, 2012
That is an interesting list. I do like Oberholtzer though. I just haven’t seen him ranked higher than Clemens before. He’s young still, so maybe that had something to do with it. They were pretty down on Clemens.
I was surprised they had Meszaros listed as the second best reliever. Seems like there are quite a few options that I would choose before picking him.
They didn’t have anything good to say about Kvasnicka either.
Clack, I think that link was incorrect though, it took me to Luis Ayala info. Maybe I just did something wrong, but I found the S2S link here.
conroestro - January 27, 2012
Sorry about the bad link…not sure what happened.
clack - January 27, 2012
What do you guys think about Cisnero? Corpus Christi this year? Could the neutral environment get those walks down a bit?
MadMartygan - January 27, 2012
That would be nice. If he plays there then we may get a little better info on his stuff. Its got to be pretty impressive given his strikeout numbers.
conroestro - January 27, 2012 via mobile
He’s such an interesting prospect to me, and it might be because I just have know clue on him. It’s going to be an interesting rotation in Corpus. I’m thinking Cosart, Buchanon, Seaton, Cisnero and Oberholtzer(not in any particular order)
MadMartygan - January 27, 2012
Scratch Obie. He should start in AAA.
MadMartygan - January 27, 2012
Yeah, Obie’s probably good for AAA. Maybe one of those other Gus in Lancaster starts in AA. I can’t remember which one did good, Donovan, Robinson, or Doran. I think it was a Tech guy.
conroestro - January 27, 2012 via mobile
Meant good for Lancaster also.
conroestro - January 27, 2012 via mobile
I think Oberholtzer will end up getting pushed down to AA, at least to start the season, especially if Myers and/or Wandy aren’t traded. There’s just too many arms for the rotations in Houston and OKC:
Myers, Wandy, Norris, Happ, Harrell, Duke, Sosa, Keuchel, Lyles, Clemens, Aneury, Weiland, plus maybe Xavier Cedeno and Aristil.
A rotation in Corpus of Cosart, Oberholtzer, Buchanan, Seaton, and Cisnero, with Musick or Robinson as the long reliever/spot starter, sounds pretty good.
Snake Diggity - January 30, 2012
I expect a trade and some guys to move to the bullpen
OremLK - January 30, 2012
At this point is Brett Myers an opportunity cost type of situation. Could the Astros benefit more from finding out what Kyle Weiland or Lucas Harrell could do in the rotation instead of Myers for the future.
conroestro - January 31, 2012 via mobile
Back in 2003, Shane Reynolds I believe had one more year on his contract and I think they just cut him in Spring training to make room for the younger, higher upside guys. I could see something like that happening if he struggles in the spring.
MadMartygan - January 31, 2012
I’d be totally shocked if they just cut him outright. They’ll trade him and eat a lot of salary before that happens.
Snake Diggity - January 31, 2012
Right, but this is more of a doomsday scenario. Shane was awful that Spring and there was some studs chomping at the bit. I actually figure Myers has a decent shot at rebounding.
MadMartygan - January 31, 2012
Having said that, if Myers is getting shelled every start and throwing 84 mph fastballs, while Weiland, Harrell and Lyles are pitching well, you have to get rid of him, be that by trade, release, dl.
MadMartygan - January 31, 2012
Myers will probably have a mediocre spring and have no problem making the team. I agree with you that he is probably a good candidate to rebound.
Having said that, if the doomsday scenario did happen and his spring was horrible and some of the others were mentioned releasing him may cross Luhnow’s mind.
conroestro - January 31, 2012 via mobile
Given how much he is owed, I think the scenario of releasing him is unlikely. I would try Myers as a closer, or a late inning reliever, before releasing him. He has closer experience (albeit when he threw harder) and a good mindset for high leverage positions. But his primary value, eating innings, is better suited for starting.
clack - January 31, 2012
We’ll also need to remember Happ is in the mix for a spot.
MadMartygan - January 31, 2012
Woody Williams may be a better example than Shane Reynolds. Williams took a godawful shelling in spring training as he started the last year of his contract. He was released, got angry, and retired.
Shane Reynolds was released and signed with the Braves, where he had a resurgence of sorts. (A lot of fans got mad at the Astros when he pitched a couple of good games against the Astros, as I recall.)
Williams is closer to the Myers situation because he was owed quite a bit of guaranteed money ($7 or $8 million, I think?). Reynolds had a contract provision that the Astros would have to pay him only a few hundred thousand if he didn’t make the big league roster.
clack - January 31, 2012
You are correct on the Reynolds contract. Trying to remember, but I believe Reynolds got beat out by Carlos Hernandez and Tim Redding, right? I think Oswalt and Miller were established in the rotation.
MadMartygan - January 31, 2012
I’m not sure. Redding sounds about the right time frame. But I’m not sure that Carlos Hernandez ever won a rotation slot out of spring training.
clack - January 31, 2012
I think it was actually Redding a Jeriome Robertson.
MadMartygan - January 31, 2012
Holy lord. we signed Livan Hernandez.
MadMartygan - January 31, 2012
I had just made fun of an 84 mph fastball!
MadMartygan - January 31, 2012
Wow.
conroestro - January 31, 2012 via mobile
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