Bob Levey - Getty Images
Tim cannot vote for Matt Downs. I'm sorry.
We'll get into the actual Hall of Fame debate later today, as we find out for another year whether baseball's media voters ignored Bagwell because of vague rumors and innuendos about his possible steroid use during a time when they weren't banned.
We'll laugh. We'll cry. We'll get all indignant once again. But, what if there were another way? What if we just ignored that pesky HOF debate and created our own Astros Hall, one that could be inclusive of players without any misguided justifications for blackballing them from the honor.
Isn't it a good idea? Kind of like the Ring of Honor in Dallas and a little bigger than simply retiring a number. We can induct five members each year, but we have to have at least 75 votes for one player to get them in.
That' right, you, dear readers, will be the driving force behind this. Let's set up our first ballot:
Jeff Bagwell, 1B
Craig Biggio, 2B
Nolan Ryan, SP
Cesar Cedeno, CF
I'd say those four are pretty much locks to go in this year. They're arguably the four best players in team history and had a long and lasting impact on the franchise. Only Cedeno didn't get to experience playoff success in some form, but all of them had memorable moments aplenty. We can debate merits a little, but I'm pulling executive privilege on this first ballot and saying those four will be on it.
That leaves one spot left to vote on, which is where things get harder. Who are the candidates for the final spot this season?
Roger Clemens, SP
Jimmy Wynn, OF
Larry Dierker, SP/Manager
Jose Cruz, OF
Lance Berkman, OF/1B
Roy Oswalt, SP
It's a tough list to pick from, but that's your task. We'll set it up as a poll, so go ahead and vote for who you think should be the fifth and final member of the first annual TCB Astros Hall of Fame class. Go ahead and put your reasoning for your pick in the comments, too. Do Roy and Lance have enough time in an Astros uniform to justify a spot? For that matter, does Clemens, even if he may be the best pitcher to ever suit up for Houston?
Let's do this. Let's change the tenor of this day to one of celebration as we welcome a new class of Hall of Famers to TCB.
0 recs | 22 comments
Clemens should get the shut-out
He was great as an Astro. For 2 seasons. My vote went to Roy-O, the best pitcher in Astros history.
CRPerry13 - January 9, 2012
Yeah, Clemens didn't spend nearly enough time as an Astro to qualify.
My vote went to Cheo.
mike_o - January 9, 2012
I don't even consider Clemens an astro.
It should be Berkman or Roy. I voted Berkman.
chilam balam - January 9, 2012
Agreed. Should be a 5-year minimum in Houston to qualify.
jmike - January 9, 2012
I voted Berkman
I think he’s easily one the best players in Astros history, had a big role on the Astros playoff teams of the 2000s, was the face of the franchise, and at the end of his career (which shouldn’t be too far) will merit some HOF consideration, too.
Oswalt would be a close second choice because of his win total with the franchise, was the longtime #1 pitcher on some very good rotations, and played a big part on playoff teams.
Cruz comes in third because he was a good player who played on the 1980 and 86 playoff teams and then was a coach throughout the 90s and 2000s.
Dierker and Wynn are icons in their own right, but I consider them good but not great players on mostly bad to mediocre teams of the 60s and 70s.
Clemens is clearly the best player on this list, but his tenure with the Astros was too short in my opinion to merit any consideration.
ToyCannon - January 9, 2012
Tough call - Wynn
Wynn wins the tiebraker over Oswalt and Berkman for me. His “peak” with the Astros was really impressive, given the home field he had to work with. I also wanted to go with someone from the more distant past – as a chance to remember excellence that is quickly forgotten.
pacbellpilgrim - January 9, 2012
Wynn
Well, I made the choice easier for myself by eliminating players who are still playing. The Hall of Fame waits until players’ careers are completed before inducting them, so I will do the same. Of the remaining players I will go with Jimmy Wynn, whose number has already been retired by the Astros (like Dierker and Cruz). Wynn’s power was amazing when you consider that he played in the toughest stadium anywhere to hit HRs. Wynn also was a good defensive player who could play CF. If Wynn had played elsewhere, his HR numbers would have been even higher and he would be more revered.
clack - January 9, 2012
I went Dierker
Pitcher, broadcaster and manager, and even with those days behind him he’s still involved with the Astros.
Timothy De Block - January 9, 2012
Ditto
I agree
For what it’s worth I would not put Cedeno automatically in or even in the top four.
As a nonplayer – Roy Hofheinz getting the MLB team AND the Astrodome deserves generational remembrance.
Joe in Birmingham - January 9, 2012
Good call on Hofheinz.
jmike - January 10, 2012
I'm submitting a write-in.
Don Wilson.
mikrobass3 - January 9, 2012
comments
First Astrodome no-hitter; first Astro with 2 no-hitters, ERA of 3.15, 104-92 for teams that almost always had a losing record.
mikrobass3 - January 9, 2012
I would like to move
Nolan Ryan off the “sure” 4 and replace him with Don Wilson. Ryan is a dirty Ranger anyway, just look at the HoF hat.
Timothy De Block - January 9, 2012
I could argue JR Richard over Don Wilson
Joe in Birmingham - January 9, 2012
I’d be happy with either one over Ryan
Timothy De Block - January 9, 2012
I agree
8 yrs with the stros, from the houston area. 4 yrs with the team from occupied oklahoma south, not from the southern occupied oklahoma south. still pisses me off.
HTown80 - January 9, 2012 via Android app
Torn between the Puma and Roy but I went with Berkman
johnny_ramone - January 9, 2012
Cheo
I was torn between Lance Berkman and Jose Cruz.
(Ironically, Cruz and Berkman have played for the same 3 teams. Astros, Yanks, Cardinals for Lance. Cards, Astros, Yanks for Cruz.)
Ultimately, I voted for Cheo because he edged out Lance in Astros service time and WAR.
Time as an Astro: Cruz 13, Berkman 12
WAR (as an Astro, according to BBR): Cruz 49, Berkman 46
Also Cruz served additional years in Houston as a coach, while Berkman is still playing and wouldn’t be eligible for the actual Hall. In other words, since we’re only electing 5 Lance(and Roy) can wait.
P.S. Cheo’s Yrs as an Astros and WAR is almost identical to Cedeno. They were both Astros for 12 years. Cedeno had 49.4 WAR to Cruz’ 49.
Hal J - January 9, 2012
Correction
Jose had 13 years to Cesar’s 12.
Hal J - January 9, 2012
entirely arbitrary
i like the ‘5 years minimum as an astro’ rule and also the more traditional ‘5 years removed from an active roster’ rule. that would preclude berkman, biggio and oswalt at this time and clemens forever. also, i am judging players based on their career as an astro only.
my first five players would be: bagwell, cedeno, dierker, richard and wynn. biggio (eligible next year), cruz, ryan, scott and wilson get in on the next ballot. glenn davis, joe niekro, doug rader and dave smith are on the bubble. berkman and oswalt are sure-fire first timers when they become eligible (i.e., old enough).
mikrobass3 - January 10, 2012
90's Starting Pitchers
There’s got to be room for Pete Harnisch, Mark Portugal, Mike Hampton, Daryl Kyle, and Jose Lima. Maybe even Shane Reynolds.
Brad E - January 11, 2012 via mobile
hall of pretty good
I think those guys make it a “hall of pretty good” not a hall of fame.
garyfan - January 11, 2012
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